About the show

The podcast where better is definitely better than bigger.

Do you think growing infinitely on a finite planet is an oxymoron? If the answer is yes, then this podcast is for you.

In each episode of the Post-Growth Australia Podcast (PGAP), host Michael Bayliss talks to experts to unpack the notion of post-growth societies and what this means for us, for future generations and for the planet.

Each episode will also play an environmental themed song from local artists.

PGAP is made possible by the support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA).


  • Beyond World Population Day: Nandita Bajaj from World Population Balance

    July 19th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  53 mins 38 secs
    animal rights, minimalism, nandita bajaj, pro-natalism, sustainability, veganism, world population balance, world population day

    World Population Day may now be a week behind us, but its legacy lives on! In this episode, host Michael Bayliss talks to the new Executive Director of World Population Balance, Nandita Bajaj. WPB is a North American organisation dedicated to tackling the overpopulation issue through education, campaigns and podcasts – they are the makers of the Overpopulation Podcast after all! Nandita and Michael discovered they have many shared values beyond population including minimalism, being childfree and, most excitingly for both of us, we are big on veganism and animal rights! Therefore, our conversation goes in many pithy directions and intersections.

  • World Population Day 2021: Beyond population with SPA and Nature's Way Films

    July 6th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 13 mins
    democrats, igr, john coulter, limits to growth, nature's way, spa, way to live

    This episode of PGAP falls on World Population Day and is also PGAP’s first year anniversary! Instead of celebrating with balloons and confetti – because they’re bad for the environment – we mark the occasion instead by interviewing two very special guests. Dr. John Coulter, former leader of The Democrats and long term member of Sustainable Population Australia, looks back on an ad he posted on The Australia in 1971 calling for limits to growth – exactly 50 years ago. Host Michael Bayliss also talks with filmmaker Dubhaltagh O Hearcain of Nature’s Way Films, to discuss a brand new documentary on overpopulation ‘The Way To Live.’ Both interviewees call for a movement ‘beyond population’ towards a bigger picture of equity and living within the physical limits of the natural world. A gargantuan episode for gargantuan times.

  • S2 Ep10: Living Simply with Ted Trainer

    June 24th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  53 mins 31 secs
    degrowth, limits to growth, paul ehrlich, post-growth, simplicity institute, ted trainer, the simpler way, transition towns

    In this episode of PGAP, host Michael Bayliss talks to Dr. Ted Trainer from The Simpler Way. And what is the simpler way? Is it a descent into sacrifice, frugality and deprivation? Or is it a systemic change away from a wasteful, globalised growth based economic system towards localised self-sufficiency, self-governance, lives of leisure and reconnection with the natural world? Ted reassures us to much relief that it is definitely the latter!

  • Tassie Perspectives 3: North Facing in the North West with Caroline and Kirk

    June 2nd, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 13 mins

    For PGAP’s third and final episode on Tasmanian Perspectives, host Michael Bayliss returns back to the Northwest to with Caroline Smith and Kirk Hall. Caroline and Kirk share their reasons for relocating from the mainland and why a future of ditching rampant consumption and returning to a life of voluntary simplicity, local communities, permaculture and degrowth are critical – not only for Tasmania – but anywhere and everywhere!

  • Tassie Perspectives 2: Damning the Matrix with Mike Stasse

    May 25th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  50 mins 51 secs
    damn the matrix, degrowth, ian lowe, limits to growth, mike stasse, post-growth, spa, sustainable population australia

    "Degrowth is happening whether we like it or not" - Michel Stasse

    In the 'Tasmanian Perspectives’ series, PGAP host Michael Bayliss travels around the Apple Isle to interview Post-Growth mainlanders who have resettled in Tasmania and to discuss their reasons why.
    In this episode, I travel to the Huon Valley to meet with Michel Stasse, long-time Degrowth advocate, founder of the 'Damn The Matrix' blog and DIO superhero who self-built an impressive self-sufficient, off-grid eco home in the Huon Valley.

  • Tasmanian Perspectives Part 1: Tania Brookes

    May 5th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  58 mins 32 secs
    cent, claire taylor, live well tasmania, permaculture, reseed centre, tamania, tania brookes

    The ‘Tasmanian Perspectives’ series of PGAP examines the lives, projects and perspectives of Post-Growth game changers who have left the mainland to start a new life in Tasmania. What made them decide to jump the Bass Strait? How is it all working out for them? Should you follow by example and make the move yourself? For the first episode, PGAP had the absolute pleasure of chatting with Tania Brookes from the Reseed Centre in Penguin.

  • S2 Ep6: The Economics of Arrival with Katherine Trebeck

    April 14th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 1 min
    economics of arrival, katherine trebeck, post-growth, weall, wellbeing economy alliance

    How does a society know when enough is enough and it is time to stop growing, developing, consuming? How does a society know when it has ‘arrived’ and doesn’t need to keep striving for more? How does a society know when it hasn’t yet 'arrived' and where further material growth is still, on balance, a good idea? What are the ceiling limits to look out for?

    Well, who better to come to my rescue on this philosophical quagmire of a question than Dr. Katherine Trebeck, co-Author of "The Economics of Arrival: Ideas for a Grown-Up Economy."

  • S2 Episode 5: Changing our Story on Population with Karen Shragg

    March 31st, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 33 secs
    author, degrowth, karen shragg, moving upstream, overpopulation, post-growth

    Why does modern society persist in pursuing its endless growth experiment when it is so obvious that this is unsustainable? Why is modern neo-liberalism so resistant to change even when the writing is so clearly on the wall? PGAP talks to environmentalist, naturalist, educator, poet and author of new book “Change Our Stories, Change Our World” – Karen Shragg. Karen, who lives in the USA, discusses several of the modern myths and stories detailed in her new book from greed, inequality, religion, anthropocentrism, and the all to misunderstood topic to which she focuses the majority of her activism and advocacy – overpopulation.

  • S2 Episode 4: How we can have an Inspired Evolution with Amrit Sandhu

    March 16th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 10 mins
    amrit sandhu, conversation, inspired evolution, life coach, meditation, mindfulness, positive thinking, post-growth, spirituality

    *One of the downsides of becoming intimate with Post-Growth is that one becomes acutely aware of the human impact on our planetary systems. One is continuity at loggerheads with growth based economies that are pulling in the opposite direction of where they should be going and what they should be doing - and the people just don’t seem to stop! *

    Now I don’t know about you, but this can often fill me with depression, anxiety, existential depression and morose apathy. And this is just on one of my rare good, well-adjusted days. So how do we keep ourselves hopeful, in good spirits and avoid turning into one of those bitter, cynical sterotypes that our younger selves were adamant we'd never become? Why do all those life coaches and spiritual types all seem to look so happy, smiling away with those big white teeth which look like they’ve never had to down a surly cup of black, treacly coffee in ages? P-GAP talks to Amrit Sandhu - life coach, conversationalist, fellow podcast host -of Inspired Evolution - and long-term smiler, laughter and optimist – to give us some sagely advice.

    PGAP is made possible with the support from Sustainable Population Australia

  • Season 2 - Episode 3: Saving the Martuwarra-Fitzroy river with Professor Anne Poelina

    March 6th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  59 mins 26 secs
    anne poelina, degrowth, first law, first nations, martuwarra, post-growth

    Martuwarra, the Fitzroy River, is located in the Kimberley region of northern Western Australia – renowned and cherished for being one of the last of the world’s isolated, vast and by global standards – relatively untouched by Western development. Of course, like all places that haven’t yet been concreted over by a dominant culture that demands to grow infinitely on a finite planet, Martuwarra, the Fitzroy River, is under threat to be next on the chopping block. But not without a fight! PGAP talks to Professor Anne Poelina, Chair of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council and a Nyikina Warrwa Traditional Owner, is a custodian of her family’s connection to Mardoowarra, at the lower end of the Fitzroy River. Through observation and practice of Indigenous ‘First Law’ - the first Australian law embodied the rules for living in coexistence with nature – Anne believes it is possible to transition from a culture of invasive development and exploitation to an entrepreneurial culture of care and custodianship.

  • Smaller Families for People and Planet - With Florence Blondel, Maxine Trump and Tanya Williams

    February 17th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 23 mins
    childfree, degrowth, family planning, florence blondel, global south, maxine trump, population, post-growth, tanya williams, to kid or not to kid

    Three inspiring women. Three powerful arguments why empowered women who choose smaller or childfree families are good for individuals, good for communities and arguably better for the planet. This is the case regardless of where in the world you happen to live - global north OR global south. Population is a contentious conversation starter - in large part because it is a very personal issue for all of us. Yet it is a conversation that we must have if we are to envision a future with less, rather than more, human impact. This incredibly special episode goes hand in hand with Sustainable Population Australia's 'Stop at 2' campaign as they launch Maxine Trump's documentary 'To Kid or Not to Kid' in Theatres across Australia in late February.

  • Season 2 - Episode 1: Degrowth in Action with Artists as Family

    February 1st, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 9 mins
    artist as family, community sufficiency, degrowth, neo-peasantry, permaculture
  • Episode 13: International Anti-Corruption Day with Cameron Murray

    December 6th, 2020  |  Season 1  |  52 mins 11 secs
    #iacd2020, #recoverbetter, #unitedagainstcorruption, cameron murray, game of mates, post-growth

    December the 09th marks ‘International Anti-Corruption Day’. This day was designated nearly 20 years ago by the ‘United Nations Convention against Corruption’ to raise awareness on corruption and its role in undermining democracy, stability and equity. Australia is no exception to this phenomena – one is hard pressed to find a major party politician who is NOT in bed with big business. If you want to be a state premier these days it is almost de riguer to have some scandal with some property developer or other. Since we all degree that ‘political favours’ are not exactly prime example of good leadership and altruism, why does this behaviour persist, over and over again, ad nauseum? PGAP host Michael Bayliss explores this further with Game of Mates co-author Dr Cameron Murray.

  • Episode 12: Retrosuburbia with David Holmgren

    November 20th, 2020  |  Season 1  |  1 hr 12 mins
    david holmgren, degrowth, formidable vegetable, holistic activism, mark allen, permaculture, post-growth, retrosuburbia, town planning rebellion

    Are you keen on the idea of permaculture but find the idea of starting an acreage in the country a bit much? Do your cortisone levels go through the roof whenever you see productive farmland being torn down for more cookie cutter suburbia? Are you balking at the thought of perfectly good houses on your street being pulled down for battleship grey pre-fab concrete apartments? Would you prefer that you could do more things for yourself and with others at home rather than having everything outsourced for you at a price from the not-so-free market? According to David Holmgren, co-founder of permaculture, ‘Retrosuburbia’ can make all of this and more, a possibility.

  • Episode 11: To politik or not to politik, that is the question - with Kelvin Thomson

    November 4th, 2020  |  Season 1  |  41 mins 52 secs
    clifford hayes, kelvin thomson, politics, sap, spa, sustainable australia party, sustainable population australia

    Another month, another bunch of elections. In Australia, we’ve just had the ACT elections, QLD elections, and Victoria council elections. I think that’s it. Oh yeah, there’s a small North American country having a federal election counting ballots as we speak. You may have heard about it.
    Post-Growth still exists on the fringe and for most of us on the fringe voting can be a frustrating exercise choosing between who will lead us through several more years of growth on a finite planet. It can be even more frustrating for independents and minor parties who advocate for something better than the status quo – a seeming endless uphill climb full of long hours, campaign trails, etc. This being the case, is it better to opt out or opt in? PGAP host Michael Bayliss explores this question further with the Honourable Kelvin Thomson.

  • Episode 10: Budget Special with Unconventional Economist Leith van Onselen

    October 15th, 2020  |  Season 1  |  48 mins 56 secs
    2020 budget, leith van onselen, macrobusiness, shock octopus, sustainable population australia, unconventional economist

    The Federal budget was made public on October 2006 with the usual disappointment we have come to expect from the coalition government (well from both major parties really). So what SHOULD the budget have looked like as we enter into the pandemic flecked decade of consequence? Host Michael Bayliss talks to Leith van Onselen to find out what a sensible economic response during these trying times SHOULD look like