About the show

The podcast where better is definitely better than bigger.

Do you think growing infinitely on a finite planet is an oxymoron? If the answer is yes, then this podcast is for you.

In each episode of the Post-Growth Australia Podcast (PGAP), host Michael Bayliss talks to experts to unpack the notion of post-growth societies and what this means for us, for future generations and for the planet.

Each episode will also play an environmental themed song from local artists.

PGAP is made possible by the support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA).


  • 3 Women 2 Countries 1 Message: World Population Day 2022

    July 4th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 17 mins
    canada, degrowth, karen shragg, madeline weld, moving upstream, population institute canada, sustainable population australia, usa, valorie allen, world population day 2022

    World Population Day is approaching on July 11. According to the United Nations Population Fund, ‘8 billion people means 8 billion opportunities’, however many population sustainability advocates are not quite so optimistic. For this episode, PGAP welcome back Karen Shragg, American and Degrowth activist, along with two new guests, Madeline Weld and Valorie Allen from Canada. In this special four way discussion, we explore the similarities and contrasts of the population movement in across our respective countries and unite to shred the myths and misconceptions around population sustainability.

  • PGAP goes Earthbound with Dan and Johanna McTiernan

    June 19th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 12 mins
    degrowth, earthbound, embodied meditation, holistic activism, permaculture, transpersonal psychology

    At PGAP, we have explored many different ideas and facets within the broad realm of Post Growth. Permaculture is a frequent topic on this podcast, so too is behaviour change and nature based spirituality. But what happens if you combine the best of both worlds? For example, the practicality of permaculture principles in conjunction with transpersonal psychology, energy meditation and nature connection facilitation? You get Dan and Johanna McTiernan, co-founders of Earthbound who live and manage a 6 acre homestead on Finland. Johanna and Dan are the guests of this episode of PGAP as we find out more about Earthbound.

  • A Theological Perspective on Population with Dr Paul Collins

    May 28th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  53 mins 19 secs
    catholicism, ecocentrism, environmnet, ethics, paul collins, population, theology

    In this episode of PGAP, we talk to Dr Paul Collins, former head of the religion and ethics department in the ABC. He is well known as a commentator on Catholicism and the papacy and also has a strong interest in ethics, environmental and population issues. Paul Collins is also patron of Sustainable Population Australia. Although Christianity is not often renowned in the broader community for its position on reproductive health care or environmental concerns, Paul challenges this presupposition. He is unique in his ability to weave theology into a discourse on environmental centred ethics. PGAP interviewed Paul on the back of his new book “The Depopulation Imperative. How many people can earth support?”

  • Ecological Economies and MMT with Steve Williams

    May 13th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  48 mins 39 secs
    book, degrowth, ecological economics, modern monetary theory, stephen williams

    “Sustainability and the New Economics: Synthesising Ecological Economics and Modern Monetary Theory” is a new book fresh off the print and on the shelves. It is an impressive volume containing chapters from a host of Australian game-changers including Michael Kirby, Ian Dunlop Will Steffen and last episode’s guest Ian Lowe. The book details sobering realities regarding business as usual economics, while offering many realistic and applicable solutions based around ecological economics and modern monetary theory.

    PGAP spoke with lead editor Stephen Williams to find out more about this impressive book, and why economics is front and foremost of the world’s problems and why things need to change.

  • Population and Climate Change with Ian Lowe and Jane O'Sullivan

    April 15th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 3 mins
    discussion paper, ian lowe, jane o'sullivan, limits to growth, new report, population and climate change, spa, sustainable population australia

    Did you know that climate mitigation models show that the only scenarios that avoid dangerous climate change are those which assume global population peaks in the next decade and then declines? Why is no-one talking about this? Luckily for us and the future of the planet, PGAP’s two guests for this episode, Professor Ian Lowe and Doctor Jane O’Sullivan, have written a new discussion paper ‘Population and Climate Change.’ Co-written with Doctor Peter Cook and commissioned by Sustainable Population Australia, this new report uses clear concise language with thorough scientific research to make a very strong case for the role that population plays in this warming world. PGAP speaks with Jane and Ian to unwrap the key points behind the discussion paper and to find out more about the stories behind these two inspiring people.

  • Zero Input Agriculture with Shane Simonsen

    March 21st, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 2 mins
    collapse, fenner conference, food security, post-growth, shane simonsen, shock octopus, sustainable population australia, zero input agriculture

    With the twin horsemen of climate change and diminishing fossil fuels impacting food security (did you know that 10 calories of fossil fuel are required per calorie of food?) it is evident that the future of industrial agriculture looks more than a little grim. Given that food is critical for survival, PGAP continues to explore the essential answers to the question: how do we radically change our approach to growing food in the years to come?

    Dr. Shane Simonsen operates a ‘Zero Input Agriculture’ farm in the highlands of South-East Queensland. What does zero input mean and does it work? Shane shares with PGAP how a zero input system works, in addition to weaving his vast knowledge and unique insights into a very pithy conversation with PGAP host Michael Bayliss.

  • Charles Massy: Making Agriculture Sustainable at the 2022 Fenner Conference

    March 2nd, 2022  |  Season 3  |  43 mins 57 secs
    charles massy, charlie massy, counting backwards, fenner conference 2022, fuzzy logic, regenerative farming, rod taylor, spa, sustainable agriculture, sustainable population australia

    On March the 17th, a conference will be converging in Canberra called ‘Making Agriculture Sustainable’. As we all know, Australian agriculture today is largely unsustainable. Soils are degrading and are in need of regeneration and broad acre farming is delivering food in quantity but not always in quality. So this conference will include an exceptional group of speakers to address the question: Can we feed ourselves and not destroy the Earth?

    One of the keynote speakers, Charles Massy, has become a household name in regenerative farming. He has a bestselling book ‘Call of the Reed Warbler: A New Agriculture’ and has been the subject of an Australian Story episode. PGAP is delighted to have Charles join us to discuss regenerative agriculture in depth and tell us more about the upcoming Fenner conference.

  • Better Housing for a Better Planet with Simone Schenkel

    February 22nd, 2022  |  Season 3  |  51 mins 50 secs
    construction industry, gruen eco designs, passive house design, simone schenkel

    It is true that new houses require a lot a resources and emissions to build. So, it is critical that when we must build, that we do it right. Otherwise we waste so much in heating, air conditioning, repairs, demolition and all the other emission trappings with running a house.

    For this episode of PGAP, we chat with Simone Schenkel, award winning certified passive house designer and director of Victorian based Gruen Eco Designs. Simone explains to host Michael Bayliss the fundamentals of passive housing design, how to make eco housing more affordable and why eco building should be the rule and not the exception in Australia’s construction industry. In true PGAP fashion, we also discuss the systemic issues that result in Australians paying high prices for what have been described as ‘glorified tents’ and what needs to change.

  • A Public Housing Revolution for Degrowth with Dr Alex Baumann

    February 1st, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 5 mins
    alex baumann, degrowth, housing affordability, post-growth, public housing, urban planning

    Housing is an essential human need, but as the average median house price in Australian capital cities now exceed $1 million, this requires some very significant dropping into the marketplace in order to afford a roof over our heads. According to the research of PGAP’s esteemed guest Dr. Alex Baumann, the act of owning a property of one’s own can place one in that dreaded 1% richest people in the world. Alex discusses why the privatisation of land forces us all into lifestyles that are antithetical to the degrowth movement and why housing needs to be at the core of post-growth activism. Alex also explains why public housing is one overlooked solution and how reinvigorating this asset is part and parcel to a degrowth future. Ready to have your whole perspective on housing turned around? This is the episode for you!

  • The Politics of Permaculture with Terry Leahy

    January 17th, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 1 min
    anitra nelson, degrowth, gift economy, permaculture, post-growth, social movement, steady state, terry leahy

    Permaculture is a popular topic on PGAP. Many who practice permaculture tend to also resonate with post-growth ideas. But for those in the post-growth movement who don’t like to garden, are there still things we can learn from permaculture? Can permaculture principles be applied to the wider economic, political and social change movements, or should permaculture keep itself to the garden bed? A new book, ‘The Politics of Permaculture’ endeavours to unpack the theory and practice of this popular and broad social movement. Author Terry Leahy collated many interviews and points of view from permaculture practitioners across the world, from Australia to Zimbabwe and everywhere in-between, to capture the many perspectives of how permaculture is understood. He shares this and more with PGAP, including his own vision for a future gift economy.

  • Season 3 Premiere - Leadership toward This Sustainable Life with Joshua Spodek

    January 2nd, 2022  |  Season 3  |  1 hr 2 mins
    degrowth, joshua spodeck, leadership, population, post-growth, sustainability, this sustainable life

    “I started bringing leadership into the environment. Because I felt like there’s a lot of people telling other people what to do, spreading facts and figures. But no-one really making it enjoyable. Saying you’re going to like this, you’re going to wish you started earlier, speaking from personal experience.”

    Joshua Spodek is a bestseller author, multiple TEDx talker and host of award winning podcast “This Sustainable Life”. Joshua is a huge advocate for the environment and for system change toward a post-growth planet. He takes his politics into his home life and made some incredible life transformations in his mission to living more sustainably. So, how has a move toward a meat-free life of no food packaging and no plane miles played out for our special guest on the Season 3 Premiere of PGAP? Is this a life of wilful deprivation and martyrdom? Or have these personal challenges transformed his life into one of joy and a different kind of abundance? Joshua tells all through amusing personal anecdotes coupled with an incredibly well-read and researched outlook on the world.

  • PGAP Christmas Special with Michael's Seasonal Manifesto

    December 24th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  51 mins 25 secs
    counting backwards, degrowth, holistic activism, michael bayliss, population, post-growth, shock octopus, steady state, sustainable population australia, town planning rebellion

    The festive season is upon us as we wrap close to another year in the decade of consequence. To ‘celebrate’, PGAP host Michael Bayliss shares his own personal vision for a post-growth future. He looks back nostalgically on his Melbourne years, reflecting on the many successes and challenges from ten years in many various grassroots community initiatives. He also plays a selection of songs, penned by himself or by friends that espouse the Degrowth values of this podcast even if they may not inspire complete festive cheer. Enjoy!

  • Season 2 Finale with Economic Reform Australia

    November 3rd, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 4 mins
    adelaide, degrowth, economic reform australia, era, mmt, population, post-growth

    In this final episode of season 2, PGAP speaks with Economic Reform Australia (ERA) to find out why fundamental changes to our economic systems are a crucial part of a transition toward degrowth. Why do we have an economic system that prizes money and extraction over the environment and prospects for future generations? What is this ‘MMT’ that everyone is on about these days? Why is economics something that everyone should try to understand and not just leave to the academics and experts? PGAP travels to Adelaide to chat with ERA’s very own Bernard Thomson to find out more.

    PGAP also speaks with freelance economic thinker Zoltan Bexley to find out more about why Australia’s current economic system results in many poor outcomes for many of us, such as the favourite bugbear on PGAP – Australia’s housing unaffordability crisis.

    Please not that opinions of the Guest’s own and may not necessarily reflect those of the whole ERA organisation.

  • Feeling the Future through Fiction with Sharon Ede

    October 15th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 10 secs
    adelaide, christie walk, degrowth, mage, novel, post-growth, sharon ede, storytelling

    “What we feel shapes what we believe. What if we could feel the future before it arrives?”

    So reads the back cover of new fiction book ‘Mage’ written by sustainability professional, post-growth advocate and Adelaide local Sharon Ede. In this penultimate episode of the second season of PGAP, Sharon tells us why fiction, story-telling and emotional resonance are essential communications tools for the environmental movement to engage with the broader community. Providing facts and figures to rally the troops over large-scale existential crises has so far failed to work. Engaging people emotionally through storytelling and providing a ripping yarn just might be the missing link. Mage is definitely this kind of book and hopefully this interview will convince you to add 'Mage' to your post-growth library.

  • Exploring Christie Walk EcoHousing with Adelaide Chronicles and Town Planning Rebellion

    September 28th, 2021  |  Season 2  |  1 hr 3 mins
    bremem peace award, christie walk, co-housing, degrowth, mark allen, post-growth, sue gilbey, town planning rebellion

    This special and unorthodox episode of PGAP was recorded on-site the Christie Walk ecological co-housing development in central Adelaide to speak to not one, but TWO very special guests. Sue Gilbey is a resident of Christie Walk, host of the Adelaide Chronicles podcast series, an environmental activist, and an advocate for social justice causes. She is the only Australian (so far) to receive the internationally acclaimed Bremen Peace Award. Mark Allen is the founder of Town Planning Rebellion and Holistic Activism. He is a former town planner and former co-host of the City Limits program on Melbourne’s 3CR radio station. In this episode, Sue takes us on a virtual tour of Christie Walk as an example of sustainable inner city community development. Mark provides insight and clarity as to why places like Christie Walk are the exception and not the rule -and why we need to fight back at Australia’s broken property and housing sector (and those who profit most from this status quo).

  • Helping the Animals to be not so Anonymous with Adrian Sheriff

    September 2nd, 2021  |  Season 2  |  45 mins 14 secs
    adrian sheriff, animals anonymous, aussie wildlife show, sustainable population australia, wildlife demonstation

    Post Growth Australia Podcast travels to Animals Anonymous HQ in the Adelaide Hills to chat with Adrian Sherriff – wildlife demonstrator, native vegetation restorer, and co-host of the excellent Aussie Wildlife Show podcast. As a wildlife demonstrator, Adrian brings native mammals, reptiles and birds to schools, universities and other groups to provide kids and adults an up close and personal education on Australia’s unique and diverse animals. As co-host of Aussie Wildlife Podcast with Steve Crawford, he chats to a range of fascinating guests around everything wildlife and beyond. As someone who sees the bigger picture of human impact on this dry and ancient continent and the impact this has on other species, Adrian also shares with PGAP his vision of a Post-Growth future.