About the show

The podcast where better is definitely better than bigger.

Do you think growing infinitely on a finite planet is an oxymoron? If the answer is yes, then this podcast is for you.

In each episode of the Post-Growth Australia Podcast (PGAP), host Michael Bayliss talks to experts to unpack the notion of post-growth societies and what this means for us, for future generations and for the planet.

Each episode will also play an environmental themed song from local artists.

PGAP is made possible by the support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA).


  • Mini Episode: Alex Baumann on Public Housing and Degrowth

    June 6th, 2024  |  Season 6  |  21 mins 42 secs
    alex baumann, degrowth, land tenure, public housing, sustainable futures
  • Season Finale: Going deep into Deep Ecology with John Seed

    April 2nd, 2024  |  Season 5  |  59 mins 12 secs
    deep ecology, holistic activism, john seed, rainforest information centre, world bank song

    For the final episode of season 5, PGAP welcomes special guest John Seed (OAM). John is founder and director of Australia’s Rainforest Information Centre and is an Australian figurehead for the Deep Ecology Movement. A long time hero of both co-hosts Mark and Michael, John combines decades of successful environmental activism with an emphasis toward re-establishing a deep emotional connection with the natural world. It is the disconnection from nature which has resulted in the endless growth paradigm which is tearing apart our societies and our planet. John shares his thoughts on why system change is not enough and why a fundamental shift in our collective psychology is needed to get us out of this mess.

  • BONUS EPISODE: Sustainable Population Australia says NO to a Big Australia

    March 22nd, 2024  |  Season 5  |  11 mins 59 secs
    jane o'sullivan, leith van onselen, martin tye, position statement, public forum, say no to big australia campaign, sustainable population australia

    For this short bonus episode of PGAP, we welcome back Martin Tye, Social Media and Promotions Coordinator of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA). Martin shares with us the details of SPA's new campaign 'Say NO to a Big Australia!' He also gives us a heads up on SPA's public forum, being held in Adelaide on April 20th, "From housing crisis to eco-crisis: Why Australia's Population Growth is Unsustainable," including keynote speakers Leith van Onselen and Dr Jane O'Sullivan.

  • Finding The Money with Maren Poitras

    February 29th, 2024  |  Season 5  |  49 mins 43 secs
    degrowth, ecological economics, film tour, finding the money, maren poitras, mmt, modern monetary theory, post-growth, sustainable population

    As this episode goes to air, a brand-new documentary on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) is touring Australia and PGAP has been given the incredible opportunity to speak to USA based director of "Finding the Money", Maren Poitras. Maren has just embarked on a screening tour of South East Australia alongside Stephanie Kelton, who is a leading proponent of the MMT movement and author of ‘The Deficit Myth’.

  • Debunking Green Growth with Timothée Parrique

    February 9th, 2024  |  Season 5  |  58 mins 23 secs
    beyond growth, decoupling, degrowth, economics, green growth, post-growth, timothee parrique

    For this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we go international by welcoming our esteemed guest Timothée Parrique, who is based in France and Sweden. Timothée is an economist at the School of Economics and Management of Lund University (Sweden). He has built a steady reputation as a colourful writer and speaker on the fallacies of our growth-based economy and is a loud and proud advocate of Degrowth, Post-Growth and Steady State based solutions.

  • Conversation with Noongar Menang Educator and Storyteller Larry Blight

    January 8th, 2024  |  Season 5  |  49 mins 5 secs
    degrowth, first nations, larry blight, noongar menang, overdevelopment, population, western australia, yakamia forest

    Happy new 2024! For this very special episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we interview Menang Noongar educator Larry Blight on site at the Yakamia forest, one of the few remnant bushlands in Albany, which is currently under threat from overdevelopment (of course!) Larry discusses the environmental and cultural significance of the Yakamia forest. We then delve into a broader conversation across many issues such as overdevelopment, colonisation, the perils of neoliberalism and population policy. Larry incorporates his local knowledge and his connection to Boodja (Land) in what is a very deep and insightful conversation.

  • PGAP live at the NENA conference: Life After Capitalism

    December 14th, 2023  |  Season 5  |  1 hr 55 mins
    degrowth, new economy network australia, post-capitalism, post-growth, wellbeing economies

    PGAP recently had the pleasure of travelling to Canberra to record live at the 2023 New Economy Network Australia (NENA) conference: ‘Life after Capitalism’. We recorded a collage of presentations and interviews with conferences attendees in order to showcase nearly two hours of Post-Growth goodness. This episode includes well-known names such as Tom Ballard, Donnie MacLurcan, Anitra Nelson and Gareth Hughes.

  • Jon Doust on education, The Voice, the art of losing and much more

    November 10th, 2023  |  Season 5  |  1 hr 14 mins
    boy on a wire, dergowth, education, jon doust, noongar menang, the voice, west australia

    On this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we are joined by Jon Doust - professional writer, speaker, comedian, performer, activist and trouble maker. Not only does Jon live in the same town as your PGAP hosts (Albany), he went to the same school as Michael. In this episode, we exchange notes on our formative years, which for Jon are documented in his trilogy of books ‘Boy on a Wire’, ‘Return Ticket’ and ‘To the Highlands.’ This provides a springboard for an in-depth discussion around the role that formative education plays in creating the psychologies of modern society and how addressing many of our existential crises requires some deep unlearning and relearning.

  • Mark Diesendorf and the Path to a Sustainable Civilisation

    October 3rd, 2023  |  Season 5  |  1 hr 16 mins
    mark diesendorf, modern monetary theory, path to a sustainable civilisation, planned degrowth, state capture

    We are certainly living in precarious times. We have transgressed six out of nine planetary boundaries (with more to come). The gap between the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ is beginning to look less like a gap and more like a chasm. The threat of wide-scale war looms large. How do we get ourselves out of this mess before Mad Max becomes a documentary? Luckily for us, Mark Diesendorf and Rod Taylor have co-authored a new book “The Path to a Sustainable Civilisation: Technological, Socioeconomic and Political Change.” Not only does this book unpack several of the main existential challenges facing humanity, it details many proactive solutions that we can all undertake to create a better future. In this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, Mark Diesendorf kindly steps into the microphone to summarise the key arguments detailed in “The Path of a Sustainable Civilisation.”

  • Planning for a Just Collapse with Kate Booth

    September 1st, 2023  |  Season 5  |  55 mins 29 secs
    degrowth, insurgent planning, just collapse, sustainable population, town planning rebellion

    It is not every day that urban planning and societal collapse are discussed in the same conversation. But for Kate Booth – activist academic and Associate Professor at the University of Tasmania, both are critical and interlinked issues. In this very educational episode, Kate talks us through the Insurgent Planning movement as well as the Just Collapse movement. At a time when Australia’s Federal Government is scrambling to build 1.2 million new homes while the recent climate data suggests that an ecological collapse is imminent, these are difficult but necessary conversations that we need to be having.

  • Let’s Get Crazy with Rob Dietz from Crazy Town Podcast

    August 15th, 2023  |  Season 5  |  1 hr 5 mins
    crazy town podcast, post carbon institute, post-growth, resilience.org, rob dietz, shock octopus

    Welcome to the season five premiere of Post-Growth Australia Podcast. What better way to launch our new season than with Rob Dietz, co-host of Crazy Town Podcast, perhaps the standard bearer of degrowth themed podcasts.

  • Celebrating the 25th Anniversary of Population Media Center with Bill Ryerson

    June 8th, 2023  |  Season 4  |  1 hr 2 mins
    bill ryerson, east los high, paul winter, pmc, population media center, spa, sustainable population australia

    In 1998 Population Media Center (PMC) was formed to ‘make the stories that remake our world’. 25 years later, radio and TV shows, supported by PMC, have been heard throughout the world, including Ethiopia, Senegal and Papua New Guinea. Produced in collaboration with local communities and local scriptwriters, these shows share a common thread in that the audience are invited to consider positive family planning decisions through the role modelling of engaging and identifiable characters. PGAP was very fortunate to be joined by special guest Bill Ryerson, President and Founder of PMC. He talks us through the ‘stories behind the stories’ of PMC's many award winning and popular projects.

  • Housing Crisis?? What Housing Crisis!!

    May 26th, 2023  |  Season 4  |  1 hr 7 secs
    adelaide fringe, boomer and the doomer, counting backwards, housing crisis, shock octopus, sustainable population australia

    Fun Fact! When your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen aren’t making brand new episodes of PGAP, they are involved in many other worthy enterprises. Michael has just co-written a brand new report “Population and the Housing Crisis”. Mark performed his debut show at the Adelaide Fringe, “The Boomer and The Doomer.” Like most things we do, this all flew under the blip of the mainstream media radar, so we took the opportunity this episode to interview each other on our respective endeavours.

  • MMT for Activism with Gabrielle Bond

    May 1st, 2023  |  Season 4  |  52 mins 19 secs
    degrowth, ecological economics, gabrielle bond, mmt, modern money lab

    At PGAP, we are huge fans of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). However, the question is often asked, how can an understanding of MMT, or a broader understanding of economics, help the cause when it comes to degrowth advocacy or environmental activism? For this episode, we warmly welcome Gabrielle Bond, CEO of Adelaide based Modern Money Lab and member of Extinction Rebellion, to tell us more about how MMT can inform our activism toward a better, more equitable, post-growth world.

  • A Tribute to Community Groups fighting Big Overdevelopment in WA.

    April 11th, 2023  |  Season 4  |  1 hr 34 mins
    bakers hill, friends of yakamia, holistic activism, rethink eastlink, safe and scenic toodjay roads, save perth hills, summer creek, town planning rebellion

    In the world of Degrowth, the focus is often centred on the need for broad scale system change. However, it is often at the grassroots community level that real resistance against overdevelopment is truly and tangibly observed. For this very special episode of PGAP, we interview Annabel Paulley (Friends of Yakamia), Chris Poulton (Rethink Eastlink) and Andrew St John (Safe and Scenic Toodyay Roads) to highlight the good work been done by community groups in South-Western Australia to fight the relentless tide of overdevelopment.

  • EarthCare Permaculture Ghana

    March 29th, 2023  |  Season 4  |  39 mins 2 secs
    earthcare permaculture ghana, post-growth, regenerative agriculture

    For this episode of PGAP, we travel (virtually) to equatorial western Africa to speak with Innocent Kelvin Coffie, youth leader and founder of EarthCare Permaculture Ghana. Kelvin takes us on a verbal tour of the property, the successes the property has had in up skilling new generations in food self-sufficiency, and some recent challenges that the property has endured through. Kelvin also gives some insight into how the permaculture movement is taking root in Ghana, some of the unique environmental and social challenges experienced in his country and how permaculture is one solution to solving these problems.