Also in this episode:

Tiyana explores her journey within NENA over the past three years, including her coordination roles on the board of directors, strategic direction group, coordination hub, and storytelling hub. She also shares her work and advocacy beyond NENA, as founder of the of Humanitarian Changemakers Network and host of the Changemaker QandA podcast.

Tiyana discusses her recent PHD work, in which she redefined concepts such as ‘empowerment’, ‘resilience’ ‘adaptability’ and ‘sustainability’. She describes how her work with women and communities in rural India informed her research. We discuss how the broader post-growth movement can benefit from a deeper understanding on the dynamics of empowerment and resilience.

Finally, Tiyana shares with us her personal vision for a day in the life in a new economy, post-growth world.

Did you know - PGAP host Michael Bayliss was also a recent guest on the ‘Voices of the New Economy’ podcast. You can even watch the conversation on YouTube.

In this episode, I invite listeners to hold one face to face conversation with at least one other person who is new to degrowth. Please CONTACT US on PGAP if you would like any tips before your conversation. Otherwise, let us know how your conversation went. It is very important that we all do what we can to make post-growth a mainstream issue, as the world is on brink of disaster. If you can, we would appreciate you taking the time to share this and other episodes of PGAP with your networks, or rate and review us on Apple Podcast.

*Links for further exploration: *

• Tiyana’s non-linear approach to change/growth is discussed in the context of rethinking sustainability at the Australian Earth Laws Alliance conference last year: https://youtu.be/9XvAJyn0Gc0?si=KNiVxCwgLdRLwY8T

• Tiyana’s empowerment framework (which can be applied to how we think about the role of an economy): https://youtu.be/4z1e6EM2GOk?si=qXI4TXPOP0uqk9Mb

You may be interested in the past NENA themed PGAP episodes:

• Reimagine a Earth Centered Economy with Michelle Maloney
• PGAP live at the NENA conference: Life After Capitalism

PGAP is made possible through the support of Sustainable Population Australia. All perspectives, views and legacies of PGAP guests are exclusively theirs and do not always reflect those of PGAP or SPA.

Timestamp:
Intro: Start – 05:10
Interview part 1: 05:10 – 32:47
Intermission: 32:47 – 35:05
Interview part 1: 35:05 – 56:46

Special Guest: Tiyana Jovanovic.

In this episode of Post Growth Australia Podcast, we welcome special guest Matt Orsagh, from the Arketa Institute for Post Growth Finance, and author of the blog ‘Degrowth is The Answer’. Matt and his colleagues at Arketa have been working to align to financial sector with environmental and wellbeing needs, culminating in the 2025 research paper: “By Disaster or Design: How finance can evolve to avoid the worst of the ecological challenges we face and enable the transition to a better economic mode.” The paper proposes many degrowth solutions to the finance sector, to which Matt explores further in this interview.

We also explore Matt’s own written work at his Substack blog, 'Degrowth is the Answer'. Big themes include wealth inequality, the loneliness epidemic, and collapse. These articles exemplify Matt’s storytelling skills. While describing our current predicaments with unflinching realism, Matt reminds us that the future remains hopeful if our global society transitions toward practical, planned Degrowth solutions.

This episode of PGAP is dedicated to the memory of Tristan Sykes, co-founder of Just Collapse, who recently passed away

Change the World through Changing Economics with Marcus Champ: The premiere episode of season 8 is a great companion episode, as it similarly explores economics and finance.

Planning for a Just Collapse with Kate Booth: Our interview with ‘Just Collapse’ co-founder remains one of our most listened to episodes.

We also encourage you to read the PGAP blog article To populate or not to populate? How we can come together around the eternal debate of everyone’s favourite vexed issue.

This interview explores the following three articles from Matt’s Substack Blog ‘Degrowth Is The Answer’:

Americans Don’t Know How Good They Don’t Have It
Collapse: Don’t Look Down
Everyone I Know is Lonely

You can find the Arketa institute publications HERE, where you may read the report ‘By Disaster or By Design.’

_Enjoyed this episode? Please feel welcome to show your support for PGAP by sharing this and other episodes with your friends, family and networks. Leave a review for us on Apple Podcast or your favourite podcast platform. Contact us anytime with your thoughts and suggestions. _

Time stamp

Introduction:

Start – 00:04:19

Interview Part 1:

00:04:19 – 00:32:06

Intermission:

00:32:06 – 00:34:27

Interview Part 1:

00:34:27 - End

Special Guest: Matt Orsagh.

Matthew and Michael discuss a spectrum of topics in under an hour, and we felt that some of the issues discussed only brushed the surface. If you would like a 'deeper dive' into the issues discussed, Matthew has kindly contributed to a guest blog on the PGAP website, where he provides substantial written responses to each of the question topics of the interview. You can read Matthew's guest blog HERE.

Liked this episode? Check out our previous episode with Phil Jones, Treasurer/Secretary of CASSE NSW Inc., discussing the progress toward the Circular Economy in Australia.

Sign the CASSE NSW Inc. petition to establish a Federal government inquiry into the steady state economy.

You can also support PGAP by sharing this or other episodes with your networks. Encourage the online community to listen to PGAP by rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcast. On the PGAP website, you can subscribe or contact us, as we appreciate your invaluable feedback and suggestions.

PGAP is supported by Sustainable Population Australia. You can sign their position statement, calling for an end to population growth policies in Australia.

All perspectives of PGAP guests, including legacy past, present and future, are exclusively theirs and do not always reflect the perspectives or working of PGAP or SPA.

Special Guest: Matthew Washington.

Joshua Spodek is a bestseller author, multiple TEDx talker and host of award winning podcast “This Sustainable Life”. Joshua is a huge advocate for the environment and for system change toward a post-growth planet. He takes his politics into his home life and made some incredible life transformations in his mission to living more sustainably. So, how has a move toward a meat-free life of no food packaging and no plane miles played out for our special guest on the Season 3 Premiere of PGAP? Is this a life of wilful deprivation and martyrdom? Or have these personal challenges transformed his life into one of joy and a different kind of abundance? Joshua tells all through amusing personal anecdotes coupled with an incredibly well-read and researched outlook on the world.

“We have to change ourselves if we expect others to change. Being right is….really annoying.” - Joshua Spodek

Welcome back to Post-Growth Australia Podcast after a brief hiatus. I for one am very honoured to be launching the Season 3 Premiere of PGAP with such as distinguished guest as Joshua Spodek. His long history in public speaking alone will ensure that your ears are serenaded for the next 60 minutes! A cursory viewing of any of his TEDx talks will prove my point: here; here; or here;

You may also have noticed that PGAP has had a bit of face-lift, with an update to the graphics courtesy of Squeaky Pea designs. I hope you like the changes! Looking forward to a mammoth season 3 with a stellar array of amazing guests. The new intro sounds for Season 3 PGAP provided courteousy of Perth composer Nicholas Gardiner. Find out more here.

“Growth on its own means always craving what you don’t have. It means craving. It means ‘never satisfied’.” – Joshua Spodek

I first discovered Joshua big time when he interviewed my colleague from Sustainable Population Australia, Dr. Jane O’Sullivan on his podcast ‘This Sustainable Life.’ Jane was invited to discuss a recent discussion paper she wrote for SPA debunking the ageing population crisis myth. ‘Silver Tsunami or Silver Lining: Why we should not fear an ageing population’ is available on the SPA website and makes for very eye-opening reading.

The link to the interview can be found here. ‘This Sustainable Life’ is an amazing podcast series where big name guests are invited to make personal changes to their lives – for the inspiration of all! I myself have an interview coming up on the offshoot podcast series ‘This Sustainable Life: Solve For Nature.’ Stay tuned!

_ “Efficiency in a finite world with growth leads to scarcity.” _– Joshua Spodek

In the introduction to this episode I brought up how Australia is facing a urea shortage which has potentially dire consequences for our diesel and trucking industries (whould woulda thunk?) If you are interested in reading more, have a gander here.

The above is just one symptom of what will soon be a much larger chain of supply chain issues and resource scarcity. Last month I shared around this article “It’s Not a Supply Chain Crisis — It’s a Failing Economy” on my Twitter feed just in time for the festive season! Want me to discuss limits to growth at YOUR next festive event? Pick up the phone - I'm a literal SCREAM at parties!

_ “next time you’re stuck in Traffic, next time you’re waiting in line some place, imagine a world of 2 billion people.”_

Sustainable Population Australia, who support this podcast, aren’t claiming to turn the world’s numbers back to 2 billion overnight, but they are loudly advocating for an equitable world with equitable access to family planning and reproductive health services. They are also advocating to decouple population policy in Australia from the narrow interests of big business and big finance. Have a look at their ‘Let’s Rethink Big Australia’ campaign.

“my swimming upstream makes it so that others feel they’re swimming downstream – and then it feels like I’m swimming downstream as well.”

If you loved this episode we have some choice PGAP recommendations for you. Amrit Sandhu from Season 2 'Inspired Evolution' episode is also a podcast host and a personal transformation coach. Meg and Patrick from Artist as Family, who premiered season 2, live through example in their ‘neo-peasantry’ homestead in Victoria, Australia. Lastly, Nandita Bajaj, director of Population Balance, is another vegan in North America who lives a minimalist lifestyle and advocates for a sustainable population.

Please remember to rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast. If you have any suggestions, feedback, or just want to say “hi’ please feel free to contact me anytime on the contact form thus.

Til next time, til then!

Special Guest: Joshua Spodek.

Nandita also shares with PGAP her visions for the future of World Population Balance, her perspectives on the challenges of inclusion and diversity within the population sustainability movement, and her experiences growing up in the world’s second most populous country India.

I find it incredible that in 1 year, 24 episodes and 34 interviews I haven’t yet had the ‘vegan chat’ with any of my guests on PGAP. This all changed with Nandita! To celebrate this milestone, I play the song ‘Abolicion’ from the Peru/Melbourne pop-punk project, Futuro Vegan Pop. The lead brains behind this musical project, Pedro Allemant, is a long-time friend of yours truly and a total inspiration in the animal activism sphere. I even played keyboards on a couple of Futuro songs back in ye days afore the COVID when we never ‘ad it so good.

I also share my interview on Australian Talk Back radio following the excitement, confusion and hostility in the mainstream media after Population Matters ‘Change Champions’ awards the other week. The media weren’t that interested in the Women’s Champion award that went to Wendo Aszed in Kenya, or Kohinur Khyum Tithila from Bangladesh who received the Media award. Rather, they were far more preoccupied with the special award given to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex who received a ‘special’ award for stopping at two children. Anything to do with Harry and Meghan has a peculiar effect on our collective psyche, and it raises the question, is it better to avoid the royals and receive little attention, or include the royals and receive a lot of mostly hostile media attention? A philosophical musing indeed that still troubles me…

Too much podcasting barely enough for you? Want to explore more of the adventures (or in my case misadventures) that were raised during this episode? GLAD YOU ASKED! This is a fancy way of saying I'm about to bombard you with a bunch of links. It's all in the phrasing...

Find out more about World Population Balance here.. If you haven't heard it yet, their The Overpopulation Podcast is a class act.

WPB launched an online panel discussion: “Pronatalism and Overpopulation | Challenging The Social Pressures to Procreate” on the 07th of July for world population day, which Nandita discussed with me. On the day it was a bit late for Australian clocks, but the highlights can now be seen on WPB YouTube channel here.

My interview with Tom Elliot on Melbourne’s 3AW Drive talk back radio is immortalised for all here. It doesn't include all the callers afterward who called me a moron, which is always such a shame.

If you are interested in finding out more about Population Matters’ ‘Change Champions’ award, you can find it here.

Interested in what Sustainable Population Australia had to say about World Population Day and why they believe the world cannot support another 2 billion people by 2050? This and more on their media release here.

SPA's very own Dr. Jane O'Sullivan is very popular. Firstly she was interviewed on the award winning ‘This Sustainable Life’ podcast hosted by Joshua Spodeck. Jane debunks the ‘ageing population crisis’ myths with Joshua as they explore SPA’s discussion paper ‘Silver Tsunami or Silver Lining’ in which Jane was lead author.

She was also a presneter at the World Population Day presentation and panel discussion –_ "What is a sustainable population? Why, when and what should we do about it?"_ This event was organised with Scientists Warning Europe, and a video of Jane's talk and the SWE media release can be found on the SPA website here.

Find out more about Futuro Vegan Pop here

You may be interested in listening to PGAP's last world population day special episode with SPA's John Coulter here. Last year we interviewed WPB's then ED Dave Gardner for our 2020 world population day special.

Special Guest: Nandita Bajaj.