PGAP would like to give a shout out to Paul Winter, who is not only on the program advisory board at PMC, but is also a Grammy winning saxophonist, whose music is inspired by the cultures and creatures of planet Earth. He kindly shared the track ‘Talkabout’ for this episode of PGAP, which we played an extract from after Bill’s interview.

We would also like to give a shout-out to Cody Peluso, Digital Advocacy & Mobilization Manager at PMC, without whom this episode would not have been possible. PGAP co-host Michael Bayliss interviewed Cody for a recent edition of the Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) newsletter. SPA kindly supports PGAP and we encourage you to consider giving SPA a donation for their end of financial year donation appeal.

PMC kindly provided an excerpt from the Hulu series ‘East Los High’, courtesy of Hulu, that we played at the start of this episode. A trailer for the series can be viewed on YouTube here.

We hope you will join PMC in celebrating their 25th anniversary. There are many events lined up, including their Zoom birthday party, held on Zoom on the 15th of June, which you can RSVP here. Unfortunately for Australian listeners, this is well after midnight for us so perhaps one for the night owls. Otherwise you can keep track of PMC's activities on their website here.

Otherwise, please check out PMC’s award winning podcast, Crossing the Line. Excellent stuff.

While PMC celebrate their 25th anniversary, PGAP will be taking a very short break. This is the last episode of season 4 of Post-Growth Australia Podcast. We made some changes to the format of this podcast, including welcoming co-host Mark Allen. The experiment has worked in our favour, with record number of listens in April and May. While our PGAP community continues to build, we strongly encourage our listeners to reach out and contact us with your feedback, suggestions and thoughts while we are on break. What were the episodes you loved, or not so much? What guests or topics would you like to see in season 5? We would love to hear from you, so don’t be shy in hitting the contact button.

All opinions of PGAP guests, including any past, present and future legacies, are exclusively their own and may not always reflect the views and objectives of Post-Growth Australia Podcast or Sustainable Population Australia. CLICK HERE to find out more about Sustainable Population Australia. You can find out more about the work of co-hosts Michael Bayliss HERE or Mark Allen HERE.

We look forward to gracing the airwaves in a month or two. Until then folks, until then!

Special Guest: Bill Ryerson.

The discussion paper ‘Population and Climate Change’ can be downloaded from the Sustainable Population Australia website here. You can find out more about SPA and their recent campaigns here and here.

Ian was recently interviewed on ABC’s Radio National Science Show on the ‘Population and Climate Change’ discussion paper here. As a patron for Sustainable Population Australia, Ian was also interviewed for SPA’s ‘Meet the Patrons’ series of short videos here.
Ian’s interview can be heard between 00:07:10 and 00:29:52

Jane has just had a very topical article published in The Overpopulation Project: “Ukraine war: temporary glitch or tipping point?” Last year, she was guest on the award winning US based podcast “This Sustainable Life” to discuss SPA’s previous commissioned report “Silver Tsunami Or Silver Lining: Why We Should Not Fear an Ageing Population” - which Jane authored.
Jane’s interview can be heard between 00:33:08 and 01: 01: 50

I note that the New Economy Network Australia (NENA) were very kind in sharing the ‘Population and Climate Change’ discussion paper. Their director, Dr. Michelle Maloney was one of the first guests on PGAP and both Jane and I have presented at NENA run conferences. NENA is collaborating with Griffith University's Yunus Centre to deliver a short course: " Building the Wellbeing Economy: Foundations for Learning and Practice." The course brings together 21 thought-leaders over 8 weeks to discuss how we might reshape the economy in which both people and the planet thrive. This is critical for any Post-Growth person to consider. To register go here, or follow the poster below!

Loved the episode? Hated it? Love the episode but hate PGAP? Firecely undecided? We’d love to hear your (constructive) thoughts and feedback by contacting us here. Word of mouth is our main tool to crack the mainstream, so please consider sharing this episode, subscribe to PGAP or rate and reviewing this episode on Apple Podcasts.

Want to find out more about the host? Check out my website here.

Special Guests: Dr. Jane O'Sullivcan and Prof. Ian Lowe.

One of the keynote speakers, Charles Massy, has become a household name in regenerative farming. He has a bestselling book ‘Call of the Reed Warbler: A New Agriculture’ and has been the subject of an Australian Story episode. PGAP is delighted to have Charles join us to discuss regenerative agriculture in depth and tell us more about the upcoming Fenner conference.

(a sample of the many speakers at the 2022 Feneer conference)

To find out more or to register for the 2022 Fenner conference ‘Making Agriculture Sustainable’ click here.

The Australian Story episode of Charles Massy can be found here. To find out more about his book ‘Call of the Reed Warbler,’ start here

Rod Taylor, one of the Fenner organisers, has also recently published a book ‘ Ten Journeys on A Fragile Planet.’ Agriculture and care for country are both reoccurring themes in this book. You can find out more here.

This year’s Fenner conference is made possible by the generous support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA). SPA are also the main supporters of PGAP. You can read more on their recent discussion paper of ‘Population and Climate Change’ here. If population policy in Australia is a concern for you in the lead up to the election, SPA offers come handy hints on making a difference here. SPA relies on grass roots donations, supporters and members to ensure that their important message has cut through in a generally unforgiving media environment. To support SPA, find out more here.

It has been 50 years since that wonderful but intimating book ‘Limits to Growth’ was published in 1972. It is as relevant as ever (especially as the worst case projections in the book are all playing out on cue). A great article was recently written on the anniversary which can be read here.

Got feedback? Post-Growth ideas? Or would you like to be a guest on PGAP or contribute your music? Then please say hello on our contact page here. Rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast. Share PGAP far and wide – with your kind support PGAP is becoming increasingly known and popular Thank you!

The music of choice for this episode is 'Blame It On The Sun' by 'Counting Backwards'. A link to their Bandcamp page can be found here.

Want to find out a little more about PGAP’s host? Michael’s website can be visited here.

Special Guest: Charles Massy.

Meet John Coulter. Truly an elder for the post-growth movement who spent a good chunk of his past nine decades on earth as an activist for conservation, the environment and limits to growth. As a keen scientist, diver and environmental activist, he formed ZPG (Zero Population Growth) in the 1970s. John took his politics to parliament, where he was elected as a federal senator for The Democrats in the 80s and was briefly the leader of the party in the 90s. John has since been involved with Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) has tirelessly undertaken many roles within the national executive committee to this day.

I caught up with John at his home in the Adelaide hills. It is an amazing heritage property with acres of preserved native bushland. Unfortunately, a bushfire came through the property a couple of month before we recorded the episode, leaving much of the land scarred. It was a sobering experience to walk through the property and a stark reminder that change is happening as society’s growth experiment hits the decade of consequence. John also showed me an advertisement he had printed in the Australian in 1971 which was titled:
“To those who shape Australia’s destiny.”
It goes on to say:
“We believe that western technological society has ignored two basic facts: (1) The resources of planet earth are finite; (2) the capacity of the environment to renew resources that are used up and to repair the damage causes by the exploitation of those resources is limited and decreasing.”

Signed by hundreds of esteemed scientists, John goes to share what has changed since the ad was published 50 years ago and what has stayed 'business as usual' due to the vested interests of big business, mainstream politicians and mainstream media.

Meet Dubhaltagh O Hearcain of ‘Nature’s Way.’ From the USA, he has launched a new documentary on overpopulation, ‘The Way To Live.’ This documentary joins a (ha ha) growing parthenon of inspiring documentaries over the last few years which dare to focus on the limits to growth. ‘The Way To Live’ goes deeper to look to the cause roots of modern human psychology that result in us living beyond the planet’s physical means. With interviews with Dave Gardner, Karen Shragg and David Paxton from World Population Balance - as well as the inspiring FIGU community in Switzerland - Dubhaltagh shares the inner workings towards making this thought provoking film.

I would like to take this opportunity to give my hats off to Sustainable Population Australia, who make this podcast possible and who have courage to support a project which goes beyond population to explore the wider world of post-growth. These have included discussions with interviewees who may not see eye to eye with SPA on the issue of overpopulation. After an entire year of their support, it was high time to focus an episode toward the amazing minds and talent that emanate from this amazing organisation.

Population has recently come into the spotlights in the Australian media with the release of the federal government’s Intergenerational Report 2021. The IGR bemoaned that the closure of the borders since COVID are going to lead to an Ageing demographic nightmare. SPA wrote a media release in opposition to the claims by the IGR and the good news is that the media responded, with offers for interviews, references in opinion columns and published letters to the editor. SPA is also looking forward to supporting a conference on Sustainable Agriculture later in September. We’re crossing both hands behind our collective back to ward off another round of lockdown and PGAP will provide updates in the leadup to this impressive conference.

Speaking of down under, it is also NAIDOC week and PGAP would like to pay respect to elders past, present an emerging on lands that were never ceded. PGAP recognises that First Nation contribution to a new post-growth world is critical, and we are proud to include two perspectives from two amazing Indigenous women here and here.

What was that you say? 1 hour and 10 minutes of PGAP is just barely enough and you want to read up on more of the stuff raised in this episode? Well, glad you asked.

What’s the UN saying about World Population Day 2021 anyway? Found out more here

This is a fascinating biography on John Coulter’s political legacy.

You can find out everything you need to know about the documentary ‘The Way to Live’ and ‘Nature’s Way’ website here.

The Intergenerational Report 2021 can be found here. More importantly, SPA’s media release can be found here, and a summary of the community response to the media release here.

Have I helped to make SPA sound like a good thing to you? It’s true! Like all good movements, they can only benefit from your support to a good cause. Find out more about supporting SPA here.

Suggestions or feedback for PGAP as we enter our second year? Contact us here

Want to be our 11th 5 star reviewer (or our first 1 star reviewer)? This and more on Apple Podcast here

Special Guests: Dubhaltagh O Hearcain and John Coulter.

In the 'Tasmanian Perspectives’ series, PGAP host Michael Bayliss travels around the Apple Isle to interview Post-Growth mainlanders who have resettled in Tasmania and to discuss their reasons why.
In this episode, I travel to the Huon Valley to meet with Michel Stasse, long-time Degrowth advocate, founder of the 'Damn The Matrix' blog and DIO superhero who self-built an impressive self-sufficient, off-grid eco home in the Huon Valley.

Mike kindly took some time aside for giving me a tour of his home where the on-site interview took place and discussed with me his reasons for moving from Queensland to Tasmania. We then discuss his life journey towards understanding limits to growth, standing for politics in Queensland, to his current advocacy for Degrowth and his reasons why electric cars and the green new deal won’t save us.

I interviewed Mike in February on a hot day for Tasmania - mid 30s - and the day in which Australia endured the Facebook kerfuffle, including the removal of content from Australian activist groups and organisations. As such, there was a whiff of apocalypse already in the air, and during the interview Mike certainly doesn't mince words as he takes us somewhere down the deep end. So a 'health warning’ for anyone expecting a utopian outlook for this episode.

Also a slight 'sound warning’ - the episode was recording on site in a dynamic living environment so there is the occasional background sound during the interview. The intro and outro are recorded in my current house-sit in Adelaide, which is right near a main road and right near an operational quarry. So there is the occasional background traffic rumble. Some may call it unfortunate recording conditions - I prefer to call it 'character.' Anyone listening who would prefer pristine recording conditions is always more than welcome to buy me a house somewhere nice ANYTIME.

Did this episode scratch the surface leaving you wanting more? Want to find out more about Mike Stasse or Professor Ian Lowe, who is mentioned in my discussions with Mike and who I include an interview excerpt at the start of the episode? Well I'm glad you asked!

The blog 'Damn The Matrix’ can be found here

Michel discusses peak oil (and other fun things!) on YouTube here

I interviewed Professor Ian Lowe as part of Sustainable Population Australia's 'meet our patrons' video series that can be found on the YouTube channel here. Excerpts from that interview were played at the start of this episode. More information on Ian Lowe can be found on the SPA website here.

Also....if you liked the music track of choice Epi-Primate, I am relived that the band Heytesburg still have a presence on BandCamp here, even though they are on indefinite hiatus. I can't believe this track is almost a decade old now.

Special Guest: Michael Stasse.

Post-Growth still exists on the fringe and for most of us on the fringe voting can be a frustrating exercise choosing between who will lead us through several more years of growth on a finite planet. It can be even more frustrating for independents and minor parties who advocate for something better than the status quo – a seeming endless uphill climb full of long hours, campaign trails, etc. This being the case, is it better to opt out or opt in? PGAP host Michael Bayliss explores this question further with the Honourable Kelvin Thomson.

Kelvin is a former member of the Labor party and since 1981 has been elected for local council, State Government and, from 1996 served as Federal member for the inner-north Melbourne electorate of Wills for two decades.

Kelvin balanced longevity with a very unique and individual outlook that often put him at odds with mainstream politics. Kelvin was – and still is – an active champion for environmental conversation, campaigned against overdevelopment including the influence of property developers on political decisions, and perhaps most famously for his staunch position on population policy. This sometimes earned him the reputation as a ‘maverick’. I prefer to see it as rare integrity.

Since retiring from Federal parliament in 2016 Kelvin is now Chief of Staff for Victorian MP Clifford Hayes of Sustainable Australia Party (SAP). Kelvin discusses with me his journey from Labor to SAP, the successes and challenges he faced during his time in and out of office and why there is a place for politics in promoting the post-growth cause.

A qualifier: This podcast is made possible by Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) who are apolitical and therefore do not endorse any one political party. However, during this episode I highlighted several political parties and candidates who have policies that have some common ground with the post-growth movement. In addition to Sustainable Australia, you may be interested in finding out more about Animal Justice Party, Save The Planet Party, New Liberals (definitely not like old Liberals), Australian Democrats, and Craig Walters. Know of any others? Let us know!

Speaking of Sustainable Population Australia, they recently released a discussion paper debunking the myths of an ageing population. Population sustainability is not always renowned for its cheeriness, however the discussion paper – “Silver tsunami or silver lining? Why we should not fear an ageing population” is not only a fantastic read but also quite upbeat. The discussion paper has enjoyed some positive media coverage the past week which is fantastic. You may also be interested in Kelvin's impassioned speech at SPA's 2019 AGM here.

And speaking on contacting PGAP, please don’t be shy! Our contact form is here. Want to feedback on any of the episodes or want to share your own post-growth ideas? I’d love to hear from you. Do you frequent Apple Podcasts or Stitcher? Then please rate PGAP and leave a review. The more reviews, the more listeners – which means the more people stop wanting more. If you’ll excuse the Paradox….

The song of choice today is from Adelaide band ‘The Tangerines.’ To find out more about The Tangerines, visit their website here.

Special Guest: THE HONOURABLE KELVIN THOMSON .